How to build an evergreen traffic machine

Modern SEO Methods for Long Term Growth: Efficient Content Strategies to Skyrocket Your Traffic to 10k, 50k, or even 100k+ visits / month (no matter what industry you’re in)

Please watch: "The Unconventional Secret to Building the Perfect Team - Noah Kagan on Leveling Up (Episode 1.1)"

Full Transcript of The Video

Eric Siu: All right good morning everyone. If you guys can hear me okay I want you to mess around with Zoom, press the raise hand button, type hi into chat, whatever it is exactly, press any button, let me know that you guys can hear me.
First off, welcome you all to the training. Here's the cool thing, I've been talking about this a couple times already. I've been using Zoom for the passed couple webinars and it's great because you people actually end up engaging with each other and helping each other out in chat so as I talk about things go ahead and feel free to just chime in with whatever your thoughts are, whether you agree, disagree with me, or it's like, "Oh this is the resource he's talking about," it all helps at the end of the day.
We're just gonna wait a couple more minutes here as we wait for people to jump in, just probably two, three more minutes as people fly in. I'm just curious, where are you guys all coming from right now? Type it into chat, I'm always curious. Okay so San Diego, I'm actually gonna be in San Diego next week, I'm co-hosting a happy hour during Traffic and Conversion conference. You can check that out, just type in Traffic and Conversion conference. You should be able to find the event, I think it's a public event, so maybe I'll get to meet you in person.
Audra's from Washington D.C. Dickey in New York, I'll actually be in New York in about two month or so. Louisville, Kentucky I've got Brian. All right who else we got? São Paulo, cool, I was there recently, well not recently, I guess about a year ago so it's not that recent. Flavius from Romania so appreciate you jumping on in the evening. We've got Raymond from South Africa too, hello Raymond.
Here's what we're gonna do, I am actually going to share my screen with you guys. Lydia, hello from San Francisco, I was there two weeks ago. Love it there and I'll actually be back next week, Thursday. I'm gonna share my screen, let me know when you guys can see my screen and we will go from there. Let's go over here. Lydia, I'm gonna be speaking at Revenue Summit so I'm sure if you're going there. If you guys can see my screen go ahead and press the raise hand button, it's not in presentation mode yet. Okay, great.
Here's what we're gonna do, we are going to talk about how you can grow your organic traffic without new content or back links, because we're tired of having to write brand new content all the time, we're tired of having to do the thankless job of link outreach all the time. Basically my goal here is to walk through this and then we'll do some Q and A afterwards and then you'll be on our way.
I want you to take one thing away from this, and I do want to let you know that there is an offer with this as well and if you want to just check out the offer you can go check out the offer right now, it's just and it's for our SEO product that is called Click Flow. Sharon I'm happy to answer your questions later and guys by the way, go ahead and use the Q and A, use the chat, I am gonna review the question periodically. Ask questions and then from time to time I might just jump and start answering some questions as we go through it. It's really meant to be engaging even though I do this topic a couple times no training is really ever the same because of the different conversations that we have and really that falls on you and it falls on me as well to kind of keep the conversation going.
Just a quick reintroduction to me because all of you are coming in from basically the warm channels that we have. First and foremost thanks for checking on our content whether it's the video content, being on our email list, checking out the podcast. Just a quick refresher, that's me, my name's Eric Siu, you can see I run a digital marketing agency called Single Grain so these are some of the clients that we work with, mainly help with paid advertising, SEO, and then video production work as well. I have a podcast with my cohost Neil Patel called Marketing School.
Really this training, even though this training I would say is more for kind of intermediate to advanced people even if you want to get some value from looking at Marketing School for example, that's really for beginners to intermediate to advanced and even from the topics we're gonna cover today, some of the frame works, they do also help beginners as well. This is really for across the entire spectrum.
Marketing School, we do this every day, subscribe to the podcast. We love it when you guys leave us comments on it. Both of us get a real big kick from people where we get feedback saying, "Hey I just found my first job, and I have no college degree, because of Marketing School," that's what really gets both of us excited. We personally don't really make money directly from the podcast, we don't run any ads on it right now, and we just enjoy nerding out on marketing and it kind of holds us both accountable.
The other thing is I have a podcast called Growth Everywhere. I've been doing this one for four years, actually longer than Marketing School. Marketing School gets about ... we're on track for 640,000 downloads a month, Growth Everywhere gets about anywhere from 80,000 to 90,000 a month and this is weekly where I interview entrepreneurs and we talk about business, personal growth, I've talked to people that have invented the magnetic credit card stripe, the little credit card stripe you have on the back of your credit cards, people who have sold their companies for billions, Jason Lemkin from Echo Sign who now runs SaaStr Conference, and a whole bunch of other people. It really gives you two different dynamics, just to hear stories from other people on how they grew their business. Then Marketing School is Neil and I just quick, short, to the point, five to 10 minutes every day. Every single day you're gonna get something from us so that's that.
I'm gonna jump into the content right now and I talk fast, by the way, so if you need a replay for this go ahead and feel free to send me an email afterwards and we will get you the replay link to this. The first concept I want to talk to you about is called the Hub and Spoke model. When we think about creating content we don't want something like this, this is like a PR spike, this is like getting on a Wall Street journal for one day or like a Los Angeles Times or a New York Times for one day. You don't want this because it's very fleeting, it's very ... it's almost nerve wracking to have to continually produce content like this and only get one spike and then it kind of just goes to nothing. Ideally you want something more like this, something that's more evergreen, something that's more sustainable, so people will continue to read that content over time.
Now the way you can do that is utilizing a concept called the Hub and Spoke model. You can feel free to take a picture of this, but the way this works is you have one middle hub page, this is the main topic page, you can consider this the introduction page or the overview page, and then you have these little spoke pages that link to it and they kind of cross link to each other. That way what you're doing is you are combining pieces together and you're making a big piece, it's not just pieces that are a blog post here, a blog post there, everything's kind of fragmented. You're putting them altogether and you're forming something bigger.
The way I like to think about this and maybe I should add this to my slides, I was at Airbnb about two weeks I was at the office and my friend was showing me around and I was looking and they have these toys and I always like to compare those to building ... well those of you that watch Anime already or like the Power Rangers in the past you think about Voltron, it's those five tigers, you put them altogether it makes up this giant robot that can fight and has a sword and all that. It's more powerful when you join forces. Now same thing with the Power Rangers, when they have the Megazord they can kill any big monster out there. Just me kind of reminiscing I guess on my childhood days but anyways this is what it looks like. You're combining pieces together to build a big piece.
Now here's a real life example in the context of online marketing. If you Google Conversion Rate Optimization and we'll actually do this live in a second, you can see here Qualaroo they rank for what is conversion rate ... well they rank for conversion rate optimization but they have this entire guide. Now this is a hub page right here and it is an overview and it has links to the different chapters. The first chapter is what is Conversion Rate Optimization? Chapter two, Why Conversion Rate Optimization is Important. You kind of just keep going down the list and again you're looking to form something bigger. The idea is that once you have a main hub page linking to all these spokes and they're kind of supporting each other as well and also linking back to the hub page Google sees that and they're all relevant, you're creating a cluster basically and that cluster is going to do better than others. I'm gonna show you real life examples of how this really works.
I'm gonna go ahead and switch my screen right now to my browser so give me one second. Let's do this right here and when you guys can see my screen, give me one second, let's go over here, okay. All right, so raise your hand if you can see my screen, the new screen. Okay cool, all right wonderful. See look at this. Zoom is so good, it's just like everyone's so engaging. I love you guys more for that, it makes me feel like I'm doing something special but thanks for making me feel special.
If I Google conversion rate optimization right here you can see okay here's the ads, here's the rank zero, okay here's the answer box or the Q and A box, and then right now what's going is Qualaroo kind of flip flops with Moz. If you look at the Qualaroo number two's not that bad, sometimes it's on number one. If you click on number two right here we can see okay this is the hub page, this is the overview, it's giving you a quick definition on conversion rate optimization, why should you care, and then it's linking to all these other ones and then it's basically become a PDF too.
Now I can tell you there's a reason why this might have dropped to number two and it doesn't look the same as what I just showed you, it doesn't look exactly the same and we'll go back to the slide in a second but it does not look the same. Now what they did was they made this into a PDF instead, they're not linking to the content anymore so it's like hey get access to all 12 chapters. That's one thing, they changed it up, yes the design is better but they're trying to collect more leads from it, fine, okay great, but you can see well there's some issues because it's no longer the powerful piece that they had before at least in front of Google's eyes. I get Qualaroo has to generate more leads, they have to generate more free trials, this actually used to have more navigation, they made it into a squeeze page. They're just trying to get more leads, more free trials, which is completely fine.
Now another example is if you Google online marketing my co-host Neil Patel guess what? He's number one right here. He's actually got number one and number two. A lot of link acquisition, a lot of link building work that we do they do very similar work. Also it's not just link building but if you look at the Beginners Guide to Online Marketing it is not just a really good hub page, here's the introductions, but it's also linking to these different chapters right here and we can click on them so let's go ahead and click on one.
Every single chapter is beautiful, it's well designed, it's well written, and if you listen to the Growth Everywhere interview I did with him maybe three, four years ago he said he spent $30,000 on this guide and just gave it away for free. The same thing with Marketing School, we're just really trying to do a good job for people and then capture the mind share of people and just continue to provide value. Two examples here, online marketing it's pretty sweet if he's ranking number one for it and then the Conversion Rate Optimization ranking number one/number two for it is a pretty good result. Cool.
Before we hop into the next section I want to ask you guys a questions and it looks like I cannot ask you guys a question so I'm going to move back to the other slides really quick. Moving back to the other slide I'm gonna stop my share, move over, and then I am going to go ahead and share screen and then I'm gonna ... if you guys can see the screen again raise your hand. Okay cool. All right so you can see we're back on the screen over here, this Qualaroo page is different from the last one. The last one was a squeeze page, you can see there's no navigation on the last page we were looking at, this one is the old one it does have navigation. It really depends on your business goals at the end of the day.
Okay so next thing is the secret to maximizing your content. I think a lot of out there ... maybe a quick show of hands, how many of you are actually producing more than one piece of blog content or more than one piece of content per week? Raise your hand. Okay so actually it seems like there's not many of you that do that so for us at least the cadence is at least once for any of our blogs out there, sometimes it's even daily, so it really just depends on kind of where you're at with your business and how much you want to invest into content marketing.
The secret to maximizing your content if you're producing content already without having to do brand new content all the time, having to ideate for brand new stuff all the time, is looking at Wikipedia. This example right here, Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln this post and here's a reason why Wikipedia does so well is because of this example I'm about to give you. Well the thing that they do is you look at in 2007 this had about 13,000 words, in 2011 the Abraham Lincoln page had 18,000 words, in 2014 20,000 words, in 2017 24,000 words. Basically what we did was we looked at the Wayback Machine. The idea is this, they are constantly updating their content because you have people that are users that are basically constantly adding to it over time and so it's constantly getting refreshed and it's a really epic piece of content. The goal is too if you can write something really in depth, if you can have the kind of canonical piece go out there and do it but don't just write long form content for long form sake because you're not adding the most value at the end of the day.
What we did was we took one of our posts, 10 Companies with the Best Digital Marketing Campaigns, and we basically added some companies to it, we removed some other ones, we basically we upgraded it and we also updated it at the same time. You can see here in 2016 if you look at the second row it actually had let's see, about 731, you can see in the bold right here, 731 visits per month which is not bad for one blog post. What we did in 2017 was we decided to upgrade it and it now in 2017 it gets about 2,800 visits per month so that's a 4X increase so not bad for just taking a piece of content and then having some kind of framework to go out and update it. I can tell you now you're gonna see my Google Search Console in a little bit, I can tell you now that post gets even more traffic.
Not only that, I mean some of you are probably wondering, "Oh you know Eric, well what's the ROI of content marketing?" And this is a questions I get from my team sometimes, it's like what's the ROI of content marketing and what I did was I said, "Hey, look at our entire list of clientele, everything is from content marketing. I consider building relationships, networking with people, I consider that content marketing. I consider everything, I mean podcast content marketing, YouTube content marketing, blog posts, all content marketing.
Now you can see what I've highlighted here, if you look at the bottom right this post actually generates free consultation leads for the agency. For us we do marketing services for people and well guess what? If it drives leads that's clear ROI for us because we can tie a lead value to a free consultation and we can just multiply it by a certain number and we know how much we're getting from that post.
The key thing here is if you're looking to do this, if you have stakeholders that are involved as well you want to make sure that you are building out some kind of tracking. Yes it's annoying and you have to ... it takes time, nobody wants to do data entry but if you want to make a business case you've gotta show results, you've gotta show numbers. We basically did this, we did content updates a month before and a month after and we can see all these increases across the board, it's all green, so for us it's a no brainer. It's really important for people to think about if we're looking to maximize our content how do we build a framework for updating and upgrading our content?
I'm gonna give you a framework that you can use and get ready to screenshot it, but before I actually do that I want to ask you guys a question. I'm trying to figure out how to do this in Zoom really quick. Maybe I can just type this in. I'm literally doing this live right now, actually I don't even think I can do this right now. You know what I'm gonna do instead? I'm gonna answer some of your questions before I go into the framework so I'm gonna look at the chat really quick.
Let's see. Tracy says, "Would love to hear about the difference in service marketing versus product marketing strategies/approaches." That's actually a good topic that I can perhaps do in a future webinar. Joe thanks for saying that you started listening to Marketing school, thank you. Then Sharon, "What are some of the best events that you present at for B2B companies to attend?" I can tell you, so Revenue Summit next week in San Francisco that's gonna be a really good B2B one and then I'm going to be speaking I believe at Active Campaign, that's gonna be in Chicago and then probably going to be speaking at Nextiva again and then there's a growth marketing conference at the Fairmont in San Francisco that's in December. Oh
Audra, yes so, "Are you and Neil doing a community subscription model?" We will be doing that, that's gonna be coming out soon, that's a separate product. We're gonna be having a certification program for Marketing School, basically something your team can use or if you're looking to kind of get into marketing we're gonna have different certifications. I'm actually curious, for those of you that might be interested in a certification program from Marketing School that where we're kind of organizing things into a product raise your hand if you think that will be interesting. Wow, okay, really good feedback. Thank you guys, okay, cool. That's really helpful and that makes me happy.
Here's the framework, take your phone out, whatever. Maybe not take your phone out, maybe just screenshot it on your computer because you're probably watching from a computer but here's the framework. What you want to do here is this framework is created from an SEO, international SEO called Aleyda Solis, that's her name. You just start from the top right, so is this topic covered by existing content? Is it outdated, is the featured information not useful anymore? Okay if so go ahead and let's update it, if not let's move to the next step. Is it incomplete or can we add something to it? Abraham Lincoln for example, okay great let's expand it. Going with Abraham Lincoln example again, okay well if it's up to date or we've expanded it enough let's move on to the next thing. Can we cover it in a different format? Can we perhaps make that into a YouTube video, can we do an Abraham Lincoln webinar, can we move that into a social media post? You definitely can do that, you want to think about reformatting it.
Just to give you an example I think about there's one woman that sells courses over here in Southern California, her name is Chalene Johnson. What she does is one of her frameworks is starts with a Facebook Live first, she's really good at engaging with people, talking with people, teaching people over video. What happens afterwards is she will make them into blog posts, she will make them into separate videos, she will make them into social media images. You got to think about what works for you and I'm also considering thinking about setting some kind of content foundation because for me I find joy from doing podcasts for example, I find a lot of joy from that. I enjoy writing but podcasts are just much faster for me so I can see things through podcast first and then I can start my content re-usage workflow.
You might be good at video for example or you might be really good at blogging so you might be really good at blogging, it just depends on what content you're really good at. You start with a foundation first, you start with that seed, and then from there you an build a workflow off of that. You don't necessarily need to start with blogging, think about what works for you and then go from there. Am I making sense? Okay, cool.
One thing we do with Marketing School here is that well we take the audio content we have and we have people that write the show notes so imagine we're doing one episode every single day. This one is 261 but we're actually, I think we've recorded about 600 episodes already so we are approaching ... or maybe not 600, close to 600. What we're doing is Google's not gonna be able to see the audio content so we are transcribing the content and we're having people write the show notes to make it digestible for people like you that are listening in and that's gonna get us a lot more search traffic. Imagine we have one new post coming up every single day and that's how we're maximizing our content, this is just a way of reformatting our audio content and we have a blog called that you can check out that has just this new content coming out every single time.
By the way, Neil and I everyday when we do this podcast there's a giveaway we do. If you go to that's a giveaway that you can get into where there's a giveaway for Crazy Egg and you can also get in on a demo for Click Flow which is the tool that I'm gonna show you in a second. Anyway, moving on.
This is the traffic increase for that blog at We didn't build any links to it and it was just pure content. You can see the traffic is going up and to the right and it's getting about 5,000 visit per month which is not bad and keep in mind this is in 2017. The questions is ... okay 5,000 visits a month okay that's fine but how do we get even more traffic with this? We're thinking about this and it was like okay well has really good domain authority so what we did was we basically moved that content over to and our traffic shot up by 20,000 visits per month. Think about that, we're repurposing content to the blog and the after that we're basically moving it over to another blog with higher domain authority and it's ranking higher.
Some of you are probably thinking, "Oh well that's duplicate content. Eric should we be doing that? It's kind of dangerous." Well if you Google Matt Cutts duplicate content he actually did a video on this a couple years ago and Google doesn't really count duplicate content unless you're doing it like hundreds of times or thousands of time. If it's content that you legit own and you're moving it to a site that you have that again you own that's fine, you're not like blatantly trying to abuse the system, and yes Google will be able to detect it if you're trying to abuse the system but in this case we're really not. I mean we have it for and then we're just trying to add value to the current Single Grain audience as well.
Before I move on to the next thing I'm actually going to cover some questions you have so open questions. Tina asked, "Will there be a recording of this call?" This is actually being recorded right now so you can feel free to email us afterwards and we'll give you access to this. Lydia's asking if we can make this larger. Lydia this is maximum size so I cannot make it larger. Davis is asking, "When will the Eric Siu/ Neil Patel daily vlog start?" Actually if you go to YouTube and you search both of our names we actually have YouTube channels respective of each other and so Neil does his own, I do my own as well, so you can see kind of our different personalities on video. Video is something we're venturing into more, our current YouTube channel is currently growing, we're at about 6,200 subscribers so if you want to go check out video content too if you're not overloaded by Eric Siu content and you're not sick of my voice go check it out.
Okay Danielle is asking, "Can you repeat the giveaway link or drop it in the chat please?" You know what? Let me see. [inaudible 00:24:55] so that is the product. Then Kristy ... okay so I guess is really tiny for a lot of you guys. Can you guys not see my screen right now? Let me see. Hold on let me make this smaller. For those of you that think the screen's too small right now raise your hand. Okay, nobody. Got it. Katy or Katty, it's probably Katy. Katy if you just Google the Content Re-usage Workflow you're gonna be able to find it and then it's gonna be a much bigger image, so hopefully that works for you.
Anyway what I'm gonna show you now is how you can leverage Google Search Console for free additional search traffic without more links and content, that's our goal here is to maximize what we currently have already. If you go into Google Search Console, and I'll do a live demo really quick, this is basically what you're looking at. You're looking at the top three so you're checking clicks, impressions, and CTR and then what you're doing is you go one level below that and you see where it says Pages you want to make sure that you tick pages and then from there you're gonna look for pages that have a high impression count but a low click through rate.
I'm gonna do a live demo of this right now. I'm gonna move over and let's go over here and then let's switch screen and let's move over to Search Console, here we go. All right, raise your hand if you can see my screen. Wonderful, thank you, cool. Search Console has two different versions now, there's an old version and a new version. The new version allows you to look passed 12 months of data which is good, the old version only gives you three months of data but some people just like using the old version. Let me show you the older version really quick and then I'll show you the new version as well because I like you guys.
Here's what you do, you are again you're looking for pages that have a high impression count but a low click through rate. If I go impressions, CTR, and then I click on pages and then what I do is I sort by impressions so let me explain what I'm doing right here. I'm basically looking at pages that have ... Google's giving me the credit so they're showing impression for but I have a low click through rate so I'm doing a bad job of writing a good title or a good meta description. Here's the idea, if Google's giving you the impressions if you have a better title or better meta descriptions, your click through rate is gonna go higher because people are more enticed to click on it. Often times we have really un-optimized titles and meta descriptions and that just ultimately ends up not being good because I think we all want more traffic and we all want more conversions.
Really quick out the gate, again I clicked on clicks, impressions, and the CTR and then I highlighted pages over here and so if I'm looking at ... oh by the way, the post I was showing you guys earlier went from 700 to 2,800 and now it's getting about 5,500 clicks per month, huge, huge, huge, huge. That's the power of upgrading, the proof is in the pudding. I don't need to make anything up, I'm just showing you the data right here and yeah, I mean that's basically it.
The other thing is we look at number two is okay Google's giving me 139,000 impression a month for this page on 15 Free SEO tools. Holy crap, well Eric you know what you have an SEO product why are you not figuring out how you can do better here? It has a .33% CTR, why can't we do better? Then on this post on influencer marketing 53,000 impression month, we have .33% CTR, why can't we do better? In addition we can even just look at position, we can add positioning right here. We can see average positioning for that page on ... actually I need to sort by impressions again. Okay this says an average position of 61%, not 61%, 61. Can we raise that? If we look at this one over here oh well I might rank for influencer marketing, how do we get that higher? You want to be very methodical about this and then what you want to do is ideally you're having your SEO person download this, export maybe 100 or 150 rows, and then work off this manually.
You could also do this with the new Search Console as well and oh my traffic's going up, must be doing something right. Anyway, so you click on open report right here and then what you do is you can look at the last three months, that's cool, and then you ... it's a little different so what you've gotta do is you gotta do total clicks, total impressions, and then you've gotta add in CTR as well and then you have to click on pages over here and the sort by impression and then it's basically the same thing. I'm showing you the same thing but I'm looking at three months of data. Am I making sense? Okay, cool.
The problem with Google Search Console and this kind of segueing directly into the product and basically where you can get a demo of it is Google Search Console doesn't show you basically how much more money you can make with it, it's very manual, it doesn't save you time and it doesn't allow you to kind of save all the tests that you've ran. Here's what I mean by that, basically what we did is we scratched our own itch and we created a tool, our SEO product called Click Flow and what Click Flow does is it allows you to test pages. You're basically running A/A tests so you're looking at the passed 15 days versus the next 15 days and you're changing the title or the meta descriptions. You can see right here at the very top I'm gonna highlight it, you can see the control version, the title is YouTube Advertising Checklist: How to Scale YouTube Ads for 2018 and Beyond. What we did was we just changed it to Step-by-Step Checklist for a Successful YouTube Ad Campaign and the CTR jumped by 23% and the clicks jumped by 50%.
Let me ask you guys a question, if you're driving six, seven, eight figures traffic per month and you're able to make these changes and you multiply it by your conversion rate, your average order value, or your lifetime value how much more money are you gonna make ultimately if you're able to drive let's say 10, 15, 20, 25% more traffic with the things that you have already? That's the idea behind Click Flow, we're basically kind of solving the issue that Google Search Console wasn't allowing for before. Google Search Console, yes it's fine, it's very manual. What Click Flow does is it integrates with Google Search Console and it allows you to do this level of testing and you can see right here it shows you the experiments that you win, the ones that you lose as well. You can see right here, well guess what? We hit a home run, the original title was Twitter Ads: How to Scale For 2018 and Beyond and then we just changed the title to Do Twitter Ads Really Work? And How To Get the Most of Them, the CTR jumped 138% and then the clicks jumped 163%.
There's a lot more that goes into this tool. What I'm gonna do is actually switch over to my screen because I'm sure some of you actually want access to this. Let me move over and go over here and then make this big again. Okay so we talked about all this already, this is Click Flow right here. Curious, how many of you would actually find use for Click Flow right now? Just keep in mind this is for sites that have a little more traffic. Raise your hand if you'd get use from Click Flow you think. Okay, cool. Too bad I can't do any polls with this. I'm really curious to get an idea of kind of where everyone's traffic is right now.
We did this live already so if you actually want access to Click Flow we're doing demos right now, they are guided demos and it's actually with myself or my co-founder so you actually get to talk to me a little bit. Just go to and yeah basically you can see from there. You'll fill out a form, book a time with me, and basically my team will be looking at kind of the websites that are fully qualified so we're looking for phone calls with people that have websites that are at least getting let's say 20,000 to 30,000 visits from Google a month because otherwise you're not gonna have the volume to have a tool like this actually work for you and then go from there. Obviously in addition to that on the marketing side if you guys just want to chat, learn about marketing you can just email me directly [email protected].
What I'm gonna do right now is I'm gonna open it up for questions, do some Q and A, and then I will let you get back to your day but hopefully you got some key takeaways from this. I'm gonna look at Q and A right now and Julie is asking, excuse me, "What if you do not have a super site with high domain authority?" Okay so I think she was alluding back to the example where I moved content also over to What you want to do there you want to start with a base first, you want set a ... if you think about the podcast when I look at Growth Everywhere in the very beginning it took a very long time for me to do well with it, to get to 80,000 downloads a month which lead to Marketing School. The first year I was getting about nine downloads a day, I was spending six hours a week on it, and I probably shouldn't have been doing that, and then after the second year I was only getting 30 downloads a day but I just kept going.
The idea is if you don't have a site with super high domain authority right now you've just gotta build to it. I don't have a really sexy answer for you, it just takes time ultimately. I think ultimately what kind of sets the pretenders and the contenders apart from each other is that they're just willing to put the time against it. When I look at Neil I think a lot of people are like, "It's easy for him because he has a brand," but ultimately he's been doing this marketing/ content marketing stuff for over 17 years.
Leon is asking, "How did experiments work?" Basically what we're doing is we're comparing the last 15 versus the next 15 and we are doing a title and a meta description change to see how it affects the click through rate and then the overall traffic increase and the idea is basically if you're able to make these changes over time you're gonna get a lot more traffic, be able to make a lot more revenues, we're talking six, seven, eight figures more just depending on your traffic volumes and then your business economics.
Okay and then Christian is asking, "How does this translate to other industries? For example a very specialized eCommerce site." I can tell you this Click Flow is actually probably the most useful for eCommerce companies because you can tie everything to a number. Basically what we do is we allow you to calculate the ... you can put in your average order value, your conversion rate, and then how much more projected traffic we can gain for your website and it'll show you how much more revenue that you can make.
Then Davis is asking, "Can changing page info/ title info negatively effect ranking if you change things too often?" The way it can negatively effect rankings is that if your click through rate starts to drop a lot even though Google says click through rate isn't taken into account let's think about it, click through rate is taken into account because it is the quality of their search engine result page. If you change something to a title that's like really, really bad versus the last one you probably want to go ahead and revert that but you're not gonna get in trouble for changing your titles all the time it's just there's a certain click through rate metrics that they're looking at just depending on different industries.
Kerwin is asking, "What exactly does the software do?" Basically it helps you grow your organic traffic just by helping you optimize your click through rates based on the content that you have already. I'm gonna take a look at the chat as well. Brent is asking, "If you're not a good writer and you need help creating content where would you recommend getting help Fiverr, Upwork, or Trello?" Okay here's what I recommend, I'm gonna type this is as well. Let me type this into chat because I like you guys, go to This is what Neil and I talk about all the time, it's kind of our secret weapon for hiring writers. You go to Pro Blogger and you go to their job section and you pay $50 to $75 there's a ton of great writers on Pro Blogger.
Okay Daniel is saying, "Domain authority has declined in importance so when evaluating the power of a website is this true?" I've actually never heard that, but I can tell you that Google took away their page rank, kind of toolbar page rank ranking years and years ago but domain authority is something I still look at and what other SEO's look at. Kerwin wants to see ... actually no Samantha is saying, "Is there a service that you can trust that can optimize our site for us?" Samantha if you could be a little more specific as to kind of what you're looking for in terms of like what you're looking to optimize I can probably help you more. Then Kerwin wants to see a little more, that kind of goes into a demo but basically just it's a tool that helps you grow your organic traffic as long as you have more than 20,000 to 30,000 visits a month you can just go to and I'll have a chat with you.
Daniel is asking, "Which one do you consider the most accurate SEO Moz, DA, Ahrefs, DR, or Majestic?" I've actually been looking more at Ahrefs because it's the favorite tool of both Neil and myself. Having said that we still do cross reference it with Moz from time to time. There's actually a case study on this, I mean somebody did a case study on Moz versus Ahrefs versus Majestic just to see how clean the link data is. I'm sure you could find that case study if you Google it.
David's asking, "Would you use Search Console to reverse engineer meta titles and descriptions for your webpages?" Absolutely. Our tool basically what it does is it shows you the top 50 keywords for every single page, it shows you all the changes you made for one page, and then those keywords will give you ideas for different titles that you should be writing. It also helps you be a better copywriter as well. We've had customers actually come on this webinar and say it actually helps them become a better writer.
Okay so Davis is asking, "Any quick insights on how videos like on YouTube rank among normal webpages and Google search?" There are some good case studies on this but keep in mind Google owns YouTube so sometimes I think ... I don't really have a good answer for this, I'll be very honest, but sometimes you can find queries that tend to have a bunch of ... at least one or two YouTube results at the top. What I would say is this, I would talk to or go to the channel Video Creators by Tim Schmoyer, check him out. He's really good at YouTube and he's actually gonna be on the Growth Everywhere podcast in the next couple months, I think I'm backlogged a couple months already but I actually just interviewed him earlier this week or last week. Holy crap, time flies.
All right, any final questions from your guys? One more questions right here. Brent is asking, "When do you recommend long form copy versus short form? I read a lot of posts and emails daily and I prefer somewhere in the middle. Does this matter based on the content that you're writing about?" Okay so I think at the end of the day it's preference. If you go to it's Brian Dean's SEO website, he only has like 30 posts or so, gets about 130,000 140,000 visits a month which is great. His is all long form.
If you look at, you look at, if you look at we're all aiming for 1,500 to 2,000 words at least per post. That just does better for us because for us personally. For me personally we have a decent domain authority and we know that if we write stuff the longer content we write we're gonna capture more long tail traffic because Google's kind of capturing those different keywords so we're fine with that and for us it's about capturing more mind share. I prefer long form but having said that it doesn't mean you necessarily need to go long winded all the time. If you can get a succinct, done in two sentences there's no reason to write 1,000 or 2,000 word post.
Yes so Martin I will write the name, it is Tim Schmoyer. I believe I spelled that right and then Video Creators is the YouTube channel. Brain is saying, "Our company has a ton of blogs/ buying guide content and we are looking to rename/ rebrand. Any suggestions on keeping our juice?" Here's what I recommend Brian, Moz did a rebrand from SEO Moz years ago and I think they actually wrote about what they did and kind of pitfalls that they faced, I would go look for that case study. Just Google Moz rebrand, let's do that. Maybe it's Moz rebrand case study, that should help you.
Then Daniel's asking, this is the final questions I will answer before I let you guys go, "If you have to rank your best channels content, email, YouTube, in what order? I know it's different for everyone but what is it for you?" Okay so I think content really applies to all of these, I will podcast is number one for me and then I will go with blog. Blogs are really good for us just because we get a good amount of traffic from blogs. From there I would say attending events and throwing events are really ... when you say best channels I've gotta look at ROI, from ROI perspective, those are really good.
Then actually what's interesting is even though our YouTube channel has 6,200 subscribers, which is not that much, and when I go speak at conferences when I go into the speaker room sometimes where I talk to other people I run into people that say they watch my videos. Let's say even if you have like sub 1,000 subscribers, let's say you have 100 or 200 or so you might think nobody's watching your stuff but a lot of people actually are. I would just say keep going with it and it's tough for me to have to restart with YouTube and build up from 1,000 to 3,000 to 6,000 but at the end of the day I think you realize that everything's just a tough slug and it's all about you get what you put in.
Hopefully this is really helpful to you. Go to and then my team will check to see if it makes sense for us to have a call or not and then we can give you private access to the tool and then get your feedback on it but I'll probably come bother you because we're looking to really deliver a great experience for everyone. Hopefully you enjoyed this, hope you all have a good rest of your week and I will talk to you again soon. See you later.

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